Monday 7 January 2013

'Entire political culture converted into Congress culture'






In Nadi ka Ghar, hardly one kilometer away from the state BJP office- where he stayed for several years as a war room strategist of the party- the BJP leader and Rajya Sabha member Anil Madhav Dave appears quite aloof from the state BJP affairs. Recovering after a by-pass surgery Dave has another task ready at his hand, though not political, how to successfully organise the proposed international convention on Narmada River at Hoshangabad in February. Is he at the crossroads of his political career? Here are excerpts of interview with him:

There is a perception in the BJP that your political graph is coming down and social graph moving up. What do you say?
Political graph is never stable. It’s always in up and down position. By nature I am a socio political person. I do politics because I want to see that the country’s system should improve. Otherwise, I don’t see any major change in the system. If you really want any change in the system it’s possible with social movement only, not the political movement. My efforts are to blend the two systems for the social cause. I mix politics with social activism to bring about eventually upliftment of society, complete upliftment of country.

But in the process don’t you think you are losing your political ground?
It hardly matters whether I am gaining or losing. Tell me who was the finance minister of home minister 20 yrs back in the state or the country. Nobody would be able to tell. It means society doesn’t remember the name of a politician but, yes, if someone has done something for the society, the society keeps the name in its mind for a century or decades.

So you think you are going on the right path?
Everyone feels he is on the right path. But the time will tell the truth who is right and wrong.

Where do you politically stand today in your observation?
Politically whatever maximum I can do I do that. People see failure and success in politics with post. But this is another false notion. No one remembers the name of Congress president who was at the time of Gandhi, Tilak or Lohia. But society remembers the name of many many Anna Hazare. So politically, success or failure doesn’t depend on the posts but the contribution you do to the society.

How far have you travelled if you want to be an Anna Hazare?
(Laughs)..I don’t want to be Anna Hazare. Just I want to say success or failure doesn’t indicate the post. I am satisfied with my role.

Is it disillusionment with present day politics?
In politics somehow culture of politics has been converted into Congress culture. That’s why everybody feels that congress way of doing politics is the right way of doing politics. But I think Jansangh way of doing politics is the right way of doing politics. So, when you know the truth but don’t have an opportunity, for God’s sake don’t leave the truth, hold it. Time will change and time keeps on changing. So, creating a change in the Indian political culture that is the big role. I am confident that we would be able to change it.

If’s it is so then don’t you think Jansangh should have been alive today?
There are many politicians who do politics according to Jansangh way of politics. But it will be only known in the country when it is successfully executed from the Red Fort. Look at this- in 2003 (assembly elections in MP) we had a slogan- ‘Vikas ke liye vijay ka sankalp’. That was the theme of the elections in Madhya Pradesh. And look at it today. Development is an issue in every election whether it’s MP or Gujarat or any other state. We set the agenda of development in 2003 and now development is the agenda of the entire country. At a public meeting at Lal Parade ground when Advaniji came and Uma Bharti was declared leader of the campaign the theme was printed in the background of the stage. Advani ji had said he wished tomorrow in the country the government is measured with development yardstick, not gimmicks. And this is what has happened.

But I remember the catchy slogan ‘Mr Banthadhar’. I think this slogan helped the BJP strike chord with people. What do you say?
Entire food is not one vegetable or one thing. You need spice also. That makes it tasty. But no spice is food.

You seem to be keeping away from the party for about three years or so. Any reason?
When I was active in Madhya Pradesh I had never been to Delhi or any leader’s House. Now I have been given a job in Delhi. Being a karyakarta I am supposed to do an assigned work only. Doing ‘dhakka mukki’ to go on dais, crying to speak at mike is a Congress culture. If a job is not assigned to you, you should not do it.

But don’t you think whether it is BJP or the Congress or any other party the culture is same everywhere?
One thing is sure entire culture of this country has been converted into congress way of political culture. We need to change it. Congress culture means more and more people on dais. Everyone wanting positions without hard work and wanting to be on top of the organisation. These are the symptoms of Congress. Unfortunately, this is prevalent everywhere from the DMK to Trinamool, Janta dal to SP and BSP. It has been proved that Congress way of doing politics has failed. Citizens of the country have paid a lot for it

What about the ‘Party with difference’?
I am talking of the entire political spectrum in the country.

So you are not a part of political mainstream here in Madhya Pradesh?
I am always in the mainstream. Yes, not visible because I am in Delhi. The moment I am back they would say you are in the mainstream. Anyways, I have had long long discussions with all office-bearers of this state regarding planning, programme and everything which is a part of running the organisation here.

And result is the change of guard (on December 16)?
(Laughs)..... It’s natural course of politics. Change is always there.

If in your view the Congress culture prevails everywhere then don’t you think the Congress has succeeded? It has not failed.
Congress is more than 100 years old party. Given the worst condition in Gujarat it had 40% share (in votes). There was no leader with the party. There was no brand ambassador like Modi. But still Congress has got its share. But still Congress way of doing politics means a politics which is self-centred, career-oriented and gimmicks based.

You talk of the change. Is there any beginning?
Look in Madhya Pradesh. There is a change. Just compare 10 years of Digvijay Singh’s rule with Shivraj Singh Chouhan government here. During the Congress regime the entire state was ruined. There was no road and power. The law and order situation was bad.

What do you say of government figures like the national crime record bureau figures which put Madhya Pradesh on the top of the states as far as atrocities against women and children are concerned?
This is because police stations have started registering incidents. Just before yesterday a woman committed suicide in another state because her complaint was not registered.

What do you say of illegal mining in Madhya Pradesh?
Illegal mining has become a part of the entire system. We need to change it. We want that there should be no illegal mining in any river or any part of country or state.

Does Anil Madhav Dave raise his voice against the illegal mining before the government?
I keep on putting questions on floor of the Parliament. I bring the subject before the state government and media. Probably I am the politician who says this is the nexus of politicians, bureaucrats and goondas which is responsible for illegal mining. More, hard hitting measures are required to check this.

To what exent you have been able to check illegal mining by raising your voice?
In Narmda area we are able to create awareness. Now, they do it in night only. I brought the situation to the notice of media, government and bureaucracy. But it’s a long way to go. ‘Par itna aasaan nahi, bahut lamba rasta hai (But it’s not an easy task, there is a long way to go)’.

When you come across the allegations about those close to chief minister being involved in illegal mining what is your reaction?
Levelling charges is one thing but proving through judiciary is something else. Passing remarks are not the verdict.

You have been very close to Uma Bharti. Should she not come back to state politics here?
I think no one goes or no one comes. Everyone is always there. Sometimes something is visible more. Sometimes something is visible less. Otherwise, all the party workers who were born and brought up in the state or district there are always there.

You have been very close to Uma. She is not invited to attend any party programme in Madhya Pradesh. She was not invited to attend even the programme which was organised to anoint Narendra Singh Tomar as the state BJP president. Any comments?
Whosoever has taken decision-inviting or not inviting- it’s their own decision. Till I discuss with them I cannot comment. But yes, if there was such a decision they must have given some thought over it.

For the past few years whenever there is a vacancy for the top post in the state BJP your name is not discussed. Any comments?
I don’t think the job of selection is based on discussions on the streets. It is always the job of the party’s central team. When Shivraj ji came as the party president I think he was absolutely busy in Delhi. When Gadkariji became party president hardly anybody can say that he had assessment that he would be national party president. But this is the way of happenings in the world.

So, you are Busy in Delhi now?
Yes, I am extremely busy. A parliamentarian has a lot to contribute to democracy if he or she takes up his job seriously. In the Indian parliamentarian system too much is there to read, a lot to think about and always an ample amount of work to do. If someone doesn’t do that it doesn’t indicate that role of parliamentarian is not there. Congress way of doing politics is culture now. After lunch in Parliament percentage of attendance is very very low. If you look at the questions raised by politicians, issues raised at forums or level of discussions. I see deterioration.
But our forefathers created the system with genuine and pure heart. That’s there. Look at the Upper House of country. Day by day business tycoons are coming into parliament. If this will keep on happening after 20 years or so I should say there may come a day when the entire flaour of the house may smell like Wall Street. So, we will try that the day should not come. All social workers, politicians working at the grassroots they should come and discuss the policies of the country, not the industrialists or multinationals representatives.

Is BJP not sending industrialists to Rajya Sabha?
I am not talking of the Congress or BJP. I am talking of the entire political spectrum. Otherwise, the subject would dilute.

What kind of change do you want in the system?
On August 15, 1947 we got political freedom. But India is yet to achieve freedom from the colonial system which covers our administrative, political, education and taxation structure. We should have a new system and indigenous system which is far ahead of the British system. We are still slave, slave of the colonial/British system. But in the next 10 or 20 years there would be change. There are several socio-political persons including myself who are thinking, planning and working on the new system.

Are you talking of Anna Hhazare’s kind of movement?
A movement cannot create freedom. Movement can create environment. If you want to create a system then creation of a system is like carving a stone to create a statue. In any movement/agitation you cannot create a statue. It needs peace, silence and concentration. Work is going on at certain level. When time will come we will deliver.

Are they politicians involved in the process?
There are politicians, socio politico persons like me, members of various orgnisations. Everyone is thinking we should change the system. Every party has some good names. But yes, majority is from this family.

There are a number of politicians who see the Prime Minister potential in Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi. What’s your view?
I think we should think on this question only after last election (results) of the parliament is declared. Then there is a right figure on the ground. But of course Narendra Modi proved his mettle. After all odds he is able to score the game. Now, he doesn’t need any certificate. However, again as far as the PM issue is concerned it depends of the figures of the parliament in the elections (in 2014).

Coming back to the state subject would you like to say something on former state BJP chief Prabhat Jha’s Pokhran statement?
Who has said this is the right person to make comment. What I can say?

What’s your future plan?
I don’t plan it. It’s party which is to decide. My job is to do the assignment with the best of my capabilities and determination and also systematically. I have never given thought on myself.

Like the past two assembly elections will you be a part of the election management for assembly elections?
Nobody has talked to me about this so far.

In your view what was difference between the situations in 2003 and 2008 and between the situations in 2008 and 2013?
In 2003 it was the failure of Digvijay Singh. In 2008 We said to people compare 5 years Vs 50 years. For 2013, we will plan our strategy and disclose it when time comes. But yes, no election is an easy election. Every election must be dealt with complete attention and seriousness

Didn’t you every think of becoming chief minister of the state?
I am a swayamsevak. I am a karyakarta and I just cannot tell you how happy I am doing the work on Narmada. My this work will stand for years to come. I am a combination of socio-political way of working. My working is giving me more satisfaction.

How has been your relationship with former state BJP president Prabhat Jha and present president Narendra Singh Tomar?
Good. (After a pause) Very good.

Isn’t this a political reply?
Laughs………

While on the path of social work did you think enough was enough and I would not bid adieu to politics?
If anyone takes such a decision after failure he is not going to achieve anything. No beggar should try to be a ‘Sanyasi’. It should always be done by a King. You must have something in your hand which you can leave. That should come at a proper time and at the peak of politics. At present. My political journey helps me a lot do my social work. I am able to divert so many things for social cause.

Is the writing work going on?
I write so many things on Indian politics. I have written a book on Shivaji. One ONGC top executive told me that they have started the practice of Shivaji rules in their organisation and there is more production now. I told him this was the success of Shivaji’s working. I am just a salesman of his thought.

You underwent a by-pass surgery what were you thinking when you were entering the operation theatre?
There was nothing to think about. I resigned myself to my fate and in the hands of the commanders- the God and the doctors. After the surgery a doctor gave me a good advice and I think it is valuable for everyone. He said to me that I should get rid of the thinking that I am ailing. If I think this way then I would certainly invite trouble. This mantra helped me a lot. I felt a lot of relieved. Of course, I take precautions. But if the thinking is there at the back of anybody's mind that he is ailing then it means he is nurturing illness in him.